There is a rule in the blogosphere: Don’t Feed The Trolls.
Because all trolls want is drama and attention and if we don’t feed them, they’ll go away.
BUT!
What if that person isn’t a troll? What if it is someone with a dissenting view to yours and reading what they’ve got to say makes you angry? Do you delete the comment? Or do you let it stand, leaving it up where everyone can see it.
There also appears to be another rule: Don’t link the drama.
Because all they want is attention and traffic and you’re giving them exactly what they want.
I call bullshit.
We can’t, as a community, silence the criticism. We can’t as a community, ignore the critics and hope they go away.
A rather popular blog lately has come under fire for relationship choices she made and then blogged about. Fine, whatever, it’s your life. I don’t agree with you, but it’s not my life to live. However, this same rather popular blogger hasn’t moderated any of the comments disagreeing with what she did, no matter whether they were politely worded or outright attacks.
I don’t agree with this. As personal bloggers or mummy bloggers, we put our lives out there onto the Internet. Not everyone is going to agree with us all of the time.
“Is the suggestion here that we should not, in this community, be critical of each other? Bullshit. A community that proscribes criticism within is not a community, it’s a cult.”
And that is so true, however, apparently criticism only counts if you’re not one of the ‘A listed’ bloggers. The A listed bloggers? Don’t you dare criticise them.
That leads me onto the popular hate blog, that again, everyone screams not to link to. Poop on Peeps.
Poop on Peeps is critical, very very critical. She vents about Dooce, Sweetney and Sandi, among others. What they blog about, their children and their lives are open to the discussion held in the comments there and most often, the comments are not pleasant to read.
Everyone has an opinion and everyone has a right to that opinion. But that is where we start to run into more hypocritical behaviours.
“My hope for the new year is that bloggers, not just mommy bloggers, take the time to read their own words and try to view them from the perspective of people they talk about in their entries. It may be their children, their family, friends and co-workers. Will it hurt them? Will they have to wait several years to fully get the gist of it all? Might they endure years of not understanding the good intentions fully while suffering under the cruel microscope of the world?”
Which, strikes me as hypocritical. Maybe she’s never taken the time to think about how her words, words written about other human beings, might be received.
Again, I come back to criticism. Poop on Peeps has the right to criticise other bloggers. It’s her own blog and while what she writes is distasteful at best, she is allowed to.
What I take objection to though, is the moderation and deletion of comments. Sandi commented and Chicken Liver agreed to let the comment through this time. To me that says that there have been previous comments not let through. Why is it not okay for Sweetney/Sandi/Dooce to moderate and delete comments, but it IS okay for Chicken Liver to do so? Her and her sycophants are allowed to rag on everyone else, but god help you if you don’t agree with them.
Frequently, the comments at Poop on Peeps are much much nastier than the actual post spawning them and those comments do descend into what I consider trolling, anonymous commentors, being nasty for the sake of it and not adding anything to the discussion.
We’re meant to be a community, good and bad, critical or not. Deleting comments, editing them to suit your purposes, or not allowing them through moderation is wrong and I’m sick of the silence surrounding it.
I am clarifying here: When I mention dissenting opinions, I am talking about commenters who are not necessarily anonymous, who disagree with you and who aren’t vicious or nasty in that disagreeance. I am talking about commenters, like Anna at abdpbt who disagree, politely, with a name and a face behind it. I am NOT talking about the driveby trolls who tell you that you’re a horrible person, with ugly kids and stupid hair. For me personally, I leave all comments up regardless of what they’re saying. I’m a big girl, wearing big girl panties, I can deal with it. That said, I completely understand other bloggers deleting trolls. I’d just rather they didn’t delete anyone who disagrees with their choices, ala Sweetney.
And while I’m on a rant:
I’m not what you would commonly call a ‘Mummyblogger’, but I do write about my children and I specifically started this blog about my daughter, Amy. She was the sole focus for a long time.
Then we started trying and failing to conceive. So I wrote about that. I read a post highlighting how women appear to be scared of vibrators, so I wrote about that. I wrote about my tits, about breastfeeding, about killing mice, about grief and cancer. One day, my children are going to read my blog. They’re going to read about their mother as a complete human being, one who masturbates, who cries, who gets frustrated with them.
I’m not scared of that. What my children may read and think later on in life is at the forefront of my mind. What makes you think Sandi hasn’t done the same soul searching and discovered that she is fine with her teenagers reading about her sex life?
You can’t threaten to call CPS on someone for mentioning sex in their blog. It’s her blog, not yours and she has every right to talk about her sex life if that is what she is comfortable doing. And yes, I am standing up and defending Sandi, but really, I am defending all of us. You don’t have the right to say what someone does and doesn’t talk about on their blog or with their children/teenagers.
For fucks sake people, it’s not up to you, the masses to parent our children for us. It’s up to us, their parents to decide what is and okay to share, not you. If you have a problem with it, click away. Don’t read. Stop looking for things to take issue with.
{ 27 comments }
*applauds*
Very well written my dear.
x
Hear hear Veronica!
I guess it’s human nature to you know, criticise. But the amount of drama out there in the blogosphere is just beyond me sometimes. Some people can be so mean and downright rude! Argh!
Moderation of comments is quite an insidious form of censorship. It looks quite innocent but is it?
If a person in a position of power be it blogger or politician, makes a statement and then controls the flow of information to make it look like the general public agrees with their statement. Well then the blogger or politician believes they have a mandate to continue acting along those lines.
Good post Veronica, You have raised a lot of interesting points here and I will be back later to see where the discussion goes.
Very well said, Veronica.
I think some of those bloggers who love to toss garbage at other people are the real trolls.
Some people have WAY too much time on their hands.
I’ve left every single comment where it is.
You know what happens to trolls on your blog Veronica, they will get picked to pieces by your other followers. If it’s bad, or rude then the person who wrote it is embarrassing themselves.
I wouldn’t bother deleting them unless they revelaed personal information about someone or were overly crude and offensive. (racism, ch**d p**n etc)
People comment for a reason, it’s because they have something to say.
What you said
Well, when someone comes to my blog out of the blue, tells me that God thinks my blog is crummy and that I should do other things with my time… I delete the comment and leave a comment myself stating that God asked me to delete the first comment.
LOL yes, that really happened.
I’m looking at it this way: my blog, my rules. I’m sure there are instances that people can “cross the line” in what they post legally, but not being a lawyer, I’m free not to worry about such things.
But yes, I freely moderate when I feel it’s hateful or the language is particularly awful. If someone doesn’t like that, they can post about it on their own blog.
BTW, in all candor, I didn’t think the vibrator post was my style. So know what? I didn’t comment on it. That is YOUR business. I like YOU, and the thing about blog friends is that you do NOT have to agree with every post to link and visit. You (I’m guessing!) feel the same about me and my blog. We are both very different, but we can respect one another and tolerate that. Even learn from one another every now and then (ok, maybe I’m not very open to the idea of learning about vibrators, but I might be ready to hear about GF diets or raising horses or other things).
PS Threatening to call CPS is a bit over the top. Plus, there is the fact that they should reserve those calls for REAL abuse… it’s out there. Sigh.
Mrs C – I tend to leave personally hateful comments up, but that is just me. I can definitely understand why someone would delete a comment that was attacking the blog owner, not contributing to the discussion. You and I, we’re very different and I don’t agree with you all the time. But like you said, I love that we can discuss those differences and learn from them.
My post is not about the random drive by trollings (the personal comments, the F* you and F* your blog comments) per se, it’s about commenters disagreeing politely with the blog owner and having those comments deleted.
Great post V. You’re pretty fab, you know?
Wow.. I am relatively new to all this blog stuff and only happened to stumble across it, but I have been reading you and a few others for the last few months.. I had no idea this kind of stuff really happened in the world of the internets.. I feel like I’m back in high school..
I think I’ll stick to the few blogs I read now..
Veronica… love this post! I rarely get comments at my blog. I blog mostly pics for family and friends who don’t live nearby. I rarely post anything controversial, either. I agree that moderating comments is censorship. If you are willing to post something on the internet for ALL to see, then you should be wearing your big girl panties and accept any and all comments.. or get a diary with a key.
Ali is right… you are VERY fab!
Well said, Veronica. The final paragraph, the last three sentences, are the most important. it’s what I do myself. If I don’t like what I’m reading I don’t hang around and criticise, I move on.
I agree with maiden53′s comment and like Mrs C, I try to keep my comments positive, encouraging or helpful, and tend not to comment otherwise. You are entitled to share information and express your opinion freely on your blog without receiving vitriol in exchange. If I feel uncomfortable about something you have posted then that’s my problem not yours.
What I like about you Veronica is that you are not afraid to say how you see it.
People are different, one girl’s dream is another’s nightmare – diversity and individuality is what make human beings unique.
Generally if I don’t agree with something i don’t bother to comment. I suppose along the lines of positive reinforcement? In life I think it takes all sorts and not all sorts are nice sorts. I don’t get many comments as you know but I think I would delete anything that was offensive not necessarily to me personally I am a big girl now and can take that but would delete racist or potentially personal identifiable information.
On the whole I vere towards blogs that aren’t that controversial as I like my blogging world to be an enjoyable experience. That doesn’t mean I don’t like a lively debate,not very keen on personal or vitriolic attacks though.
Constructive critism is fine but some people lack manners perhaps and when things get nasty I navigate back to my old favourites.
Happy New Year Veronica.
Totally get what you are saying and agree wholeheartedly. You may well have opened up a can of worms though… strap yourself in – it may be a bumpy ride…….
What amuses me sometimes is that people leaving hurtful comments often do so anonymously. And very often ppl who are nasty don’t leave comments that allow you to debate a point. They generally leave derogatory remarks.
Best Post Ever
I don’t get enough traffic on my current blog to even want to delete a comment but I’d probably cry if I got a nasty one.
It seems as though the blogosphere is acting similarly to a sorority. We’re all in it for the right reasons – but sometimes, when you get to close to someone, they become like family and therefore, easy to critize.
Yes, we are supposed to support each other – but if we all answered what we thought the author would want to hear – then are we really giving support or constant agreement? As much (as I mentioned), I’d probably cry at a bad comment – I do like to hear the other side of the coin…that there are other options out there that I should be hearing so I can grow as a person.
Perhaps we all should think about what we write – if you wouldn’t say it aloud to the person, then perhaps, it wouldn’t be a good thing to write.
Holy hell girl. You sucked me right into that debate and I ended up leaving a comment before I could stop myself! Can’t wait till chickenliver and her cronies tear me apart. What is wrong with women that they can’t support each other? Why must it always be a competition?
Amen to all of that.
I admit to taking a few trollish comments and sending them to spam but that’s because they hurt so much.
It blows me away that people can be so judgemental, although I guess I am being just as judgemental in thinking that.
To each their own, I say.
Fantastic post.
PS, whoever said highschool all over again.
Spot on.
I’m reading through responses to your comment on PoP, and it’s making me laugh.
“Life SHOULD start and stop with your children…..As they grow older and more independent, they still should be the most important aspect of your life.”
Hmmmm. Wow. Yeeeaaaah. Gotta love advice like that! Gather ’round, impressionable young mommies! You make sure that you wrap your entire identity up in independent beings who, by nature, are DESIGNED to grow up, leave the nest and start productive, useful lives of their own.) You make sure that nothing comes before your children…. Not your husband, not God, not a life of your own… Nope. That’s the ONLY way that they will know that you love them.
Driiiink that Kool-Aid. Drink it deep.
Well said, Veronica. I think Candy is right. Why can’t women support one another? Our lives are hard enough, but we need to beat one another down. Why? To feel better about ourselves? Whatever.
My very best friend and I often agree to disagree. We love each other but don’t always think or act the same. My problem with some of the trolls is they go so far beyond, “I don’t agree” and move into, “you’re a terrible person.” They also seem to jump right into name calling and denigrating the person for their looks. So many comments using words like “ugly”, “fat”, or “skinny”. How is that criticism? One blogger doesn’t like Ree (The Pioneer Woman) because she uses “too much butter”. Now if she doesn’t agree with eating butter that is a fine comment. But, no, she HATES, the Pioneer Woman. It moved quickly from not liking the ingredients to saying Ree is a bad person and egotistical, etc, etc. So sad. I don’t eat meat but I don’t spend my time looking for blogs about meat and then criticizing them and the bloggers who eat meat.
I have so much to say and NO time to say it. I promise to be back tonight when I can chime in. Thanks for the links and for letting me know to come over!
Well said, Veronica.
I’m in the same boat as many people, my blog doesn’t generate random traffic, so the friends and family that read it are too polite to leave nasty messages. I don’t know how I’d feel if I got one…but I hope I’d be big enough to leave it up.
Thanks for a thoughtful post.
I turned on comment moderation in April of last year and it’s the best decision I have ever made for my blog. I used to wake up in the morning to “battle of the readers” in my comment section and it was rarely related to the post I had written. All it takes is one person to be ugly and my other readers would jump their shit and it would turn into a name calling, mud slinging, blog. I hated it. Once I turned on the moderation, I have the control. Since it’s my blog, I feel that is my right. If the commenter isn’t being nasty and only having a difference of opinion, I always post. But lately all my trolls are going to spam because they leave No-reply@yahoo.com as their email address. My spam parameters grab them and hold them.
I feel much better about my blog this way. I hope to be around in the blogosphere for a long time and want my kids to able to read this. I would hate for them to be heartbroken when they read, “that our family sucks, and we shouldn’t be allowed to adopt, and they are ugly, fake children that only smile for attention.” Those comments are BS and do not get published. If my own kids feel that way when they are adults, they have that right. This is their life. I would hate for them to read those words on these pages that I hold so dear. Yes, blogging on the internet opens us all up for criticism and my kids will hear/read these words sooner or later either through a bully at school, or googling their mothers name, but for now, I feel like my blog is my home and I can choose who I let into it. Does that all make sense? i hope you don’t feel I am being disrespectful. I agree with every single thing you said in this post EXCEPT for the comment moderation part.
I look forward to seeing you around. BTW- I don’t know how you find the time to blog, you do have kids don’t you? Just kidding! Have a great night!
I am back. Sorry. I just read what you added about dissenting opinions. Sorry I missed that. You must have added that since this morning. Dissenting opinions on my blog are most often left by anonymous chicken shits with a fake email address.
Dissenting opinions are a tough one for me when the post is about something you have already done, not something you are asking opinions on. For example, I get comments from people often telling me I have too many kids or that it is not physically possible to care for and provide for so many children. To that, what can I say? “Umm, okay, let me give a few away then.” Those are the comments that cause the rest of my readers to come unglued. I like to write and share pictures and be done. I hate feeling like I have to referee on my blog. I do enough refereeing in my kitchen. There are days in my house I feel like wearing a black and white striped shirt and a whistle. That will be the day CPS shows up…..
Hi Veronica,
I found you through the “cat” fight on PoP. I clicked on your name in your first post and found one of your other blogs. It was beautiful and has been added to my list of reads. I don’t have a blog, I’m not a writer, or a mommy or anything particularly interesting. I’m a fan of Dooce and the Blogess. I have been banned from posting comments on PoP because, well, I really don’t know why. There was a huge battle about some blogger named NieNie and how bashing her was hands off because she almost died in a plane crash. She was physically damaged. The conversation turned to mental health and how people with mental illnesses were fair game on PoP. Long story short, I wrote her how I had been raped 20 years ago and suffered from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which has developed into chronic depression. I told her how, like NieNie, I battled every day for years to get better-to get to a place where I could live close to a normal life, how, while NieNie’s burn scars were visible, my scars, which were just as bad were internal and not obvious. I asked why it was ok to bash my illness (depression) but not ok to bash NieNie’s affliction (burn scars)? Not only was my comment not posted, but my IP was blocked. This is who Chicken Liver is. I’ve told this story to several people who have also been “moderated” by that woman. When I first found PoP, I was appalled and needed to know how to stop her. Now I just feel sorrow for the lives her minions lead, and I thank God for the wonderful life I’m now able to lead.
Thank you for allowing me to vent about PoP. She blocked my story, and even if her followers could read it, it would have no affect.
Best,
Sue
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