NIMBY = Not In My Back Yard.
And so over a fortnight has passed since the announcement that a detention centre will be built at the old army barracks in Pontville, around 25 minutes from where I live, and I am still spending a lot of time throwing my arms in the air and shouting at the TV ‘OH MY GOD, THEY ARE NOT HERE ILLEGALLY. REALLY!’
The attitude portrayed by some members of the local community has been appalling. “But they’re BOAT PEOPLE. If they had all that money to get here by boat, they should have arrived on a plane.” Yes, an actual comment. I was tempted to throw the newspaper across the car, but it wouldn’t have changed anything.
A grand total of 4% of asylum seekers arrive by boat. FOUR PERCENT. So, of the 400 asylum seekers to be housed at Pontville, roughly, oh, 16 of them arrived by boat? Maybe 17, if we want to be generous and round up.
One lady said that she didn’t like it because her house overlooks the detention site. Another asked if maybe we could house them somewhere else? Just for his peace of mind you see, there’s no telling what those people would do if they escaped into the community.
I’ve been trying very hard not to read comments about the detention centre, or asylum seekers, because I start to get twitchy when I hear blatant ignorance being spouted as fact and there is only so much ranting I can expect Nathan to listen to.
But let’s talk about it here.
It is not illegal to seek asylum, even if you’re arriving by boat. According to Australia’s agreement as part of the UN, Australia is legally obligated to take people seeking asylum. No matter HOW they get here.
They are not criminals. Government policy is what locks them up behind razor wire and 3m fences, not criminal activity.
We do not know what they ran from, but likely it’s worse than not being able to buy milk for their morning coffee. They are here because they fled for their lives.
If I hear one more person shout “BUT THEY’RE QUEUE JUMPING” I might just start throwing things. They are not queue jumping. There is no line to get into Australia.
“BUT THEY’RE HERE ILLEGALLY!” – See my first point. It’s not illegal to seek asylum. What is illegal is overstaying your visa – but we don’t hear anyone screeching about the white British backpackers who are here illegally. Is it a skin colour thing? Or maybe it’s religion…
The term “Boat People” upsets me. Not only is it plain wrong, but it paints the asylum seekers in a bad light. Like “Ooooooh, careful, the boat people will get you with their giant fangs and nasty nasty ways…”
They’re not “Boat People”. They are just people, who went through unspeakable things to get to a country, in the hope that they would be safe. Their religion, the colour of their skin, what they believe in, none of that matters.
They are just people. With families, and mothers and hopes and dreams.
Just people.
And we ought to show a little more humanity in welcoming them, instead of letting the politicians tell us what to think, because “STOP THE BOATS” is a handy election slogan, pandering to an upper-class white christian society, scared of colour and change.
Some good has come out of this, the Tasmanian Asylum Seeker Support page on Facebook has over 450 “likes” and the Mayor of Brighton, Tony Foster is requesting that the community remain as welcoming as we did back in 1999, when Brighton housed Kosovo refugees.
So the question remains, do people fear the asylum seekers because they’re secretly racist?
Or is there something else I’m missing here.
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I think it is racism that makes people NOT want asylum seekers into their country. Or also, the fear of the unknown. And I don’t think it stops at asylum seekers, it’s immigrants – full stop. Well, I’ll be specific, immigrants who are not blonde and blue-eyed, shall we say? I don’t see why people don’t make a lot of noise over backpackers who overstay, THESE are the people how HAVE a safe place to return to. I’ve seen this EVERYWHERE, in almost every country. The fear of letting migrants in. For instance, Singapore is having an election and a lot of the opposition parties are using the migration of foreigners (namely, from China and India) as a tactic to instil fear amongst the Singaporeans. And, it’s working. Well, I hear a lot of complaints, but whether it will make any difference come voting day, is another matter. Sorry, I digress…basically people (politicians mainly) would use this fear of being “overtaken” by another race/creed/nationality on their citizens. It’s sad, but true. And it’s even sadder that there are just so many ignorant people out there. And today’s news about the Villawood Detention Centre riot, well, let’s just see what ignorant people are going to say about that shall we? Basically yes, it’s racism. But people are just to embarrass to admit that they are racists.
The not blonde and blue-eyed is what Nat and I suspect it is too.
THANK YOU
I could not have said it better myself.
The problem is that the government does not seem to be able to figure out an efficient way to process these asylum seekers.
Totally agree that if they all had blond hair and blue eyes that people would be welcoming them with open arms.
Hello, how do you think a lot of our ancestors arrived here?????
Exactly! And I am astounded that it takes so long to process them. Surely a health check and a security check is what it takes, not years of detention? Sad.
well said hon…….
I love Sarahs last comment!!!
Sarah’s comment is perfect.
I don’t know that it’s racism, but more ignorance? and envy. People resent money being spent on others, where it doesn’t benefit them. Especially when we can see areas like health & education that never seem to have enough money.
White upper class Christians aren’t the problem. I think you’d find church going folk would be quite open & supportive to asylum seekers & refugees. The resistance to asylum seekers comes from middle & working class people.
I agree that there is a lot of fear mongering & people’s attitudes in general need to change.
Ignorance and envy, I do agree it’s that. The “but what about MEEEEE” mentality that people get, when others get a hand up.
Sadly, a lot of the church going folk I know IRL are anti- refugee, anti immigration, anti asylum seekers. Obviously that’s skewed my perception and I probably ought to talk to more people about it instead of the ones I currently do.
Great post. My only objection is similar to Emily’s- that Christians aren’t the problem. Ignorance is the problem- and unfortunately, some Christians are ignorant, just like many non-Christians. Frankly, labeling “white upper class Christians” as being scared of colour and change screams “hasty generalization”… being scared of colour and change is racist and ignorant, not Christian. The anti-refugee, anti-immigration, anti-asylum seeker Christians that you reference are obviously in need of a heart transformation, IMHO, because that’s not a Christian attitude- we’re called to love our neighbors as ourselves, not run and hide in fear of difference.
Thanks for a really honest, sincere, and well-written blog post. I’m bookmarking your blog to check back about this issue (I’m from Tassie but live overseas). Hopefully more people wise up to the fact that perhaps asylum seekers actually have something to teach us, and are often intelligent people with good hearts who are just trying to flee from injustice. Thanks again!
I am a mother and I pride myself on living in ‘the lucky country’.
If I were in a country controlled by famine and war, I would seek help for my kids elsewhere and what better place to go than a country nicknamed the ‘lucky country’?
I say let them in as citizens. I don’t give a shit how they got here, my only concerns are the fact they had to escape from something so horrid that some, not ALL, did it illegally.
I don’t see that asking for help is illegal nor should they be condemned for wanting to escape horror with their lives. I’d do it if I had to.
EXACTLY.
I find this so frustrating! I wrote a post about it once, after seeing the Rethink Refugees ad. It boggles me how people can be so hateful and think it’s normal.
http://bmidontcare.blogspot.com/2010/12/let-me-tell-you-story.html
Heading over to read now.
I think the Rethink Refugee ad is brilliant.
I can’t say anything about this issue without turning into crazy screamy yell woman. I am so sad for Australia and for all Australians that we continue to treat other human beings with such awful disregard for their well-being. These people have shown us time and again that being put in “detention” is so stressful and awful as to drive them to despair and still the majority of Australians (IMO) show almost no compassion for them. I am ashamed that this is how we treat desperate refugees who come in search of a new, safe life in a country where they believe they can find safety, security and sanctuary. No one in a position of power has the strength to stand up and say “no, this is wrong”. How did we get to this point? I am ashamed to say that I think it is largely about racism and fear. We all have to do whatever we can to force change.
Crazy screamy yell woman, that’s me, over here. Right here. Sigh.
You NAILED it, V. I have nothing to add other than a hearty WHAT SHE SAID.
Thankyou.
I agree with you on absolutely everything – except for just one point – and granted, it’s probably not something you would be familiar with – given that you are not applying for immigration to Australia (duh!) – and it’s when you said, “There is no line to get into Australia.” – Trust me – there is one, and it’s very, very, very, very, very long. It’s pretty much invisible, and you have no idea how long, until you’re in it. Legal migration to Australia can take as long as 36 months, sometimes, you get into the queue, and then you actually move backwards, because suddenly a lot more people apply that have higher ‘points’ than you do, or because the migration policy changes, or suddenly Australia needs more architects than they do engineers (for example). Sometimes it really helps to be an assistant pastry chef, or a hairdresser – because boy – does Australia ever need those! 🙂 So I just wanted to let you know that. I haven’t ever applied for migration, but have many friends who have, and even more family members who have (all successfully), and have investigated the process extensively. I will also say though, that I’m sure that the folks who have applied successfully are not the ones accusing the asylum seekers of queue jumping, but they really do understand their desperation.
Thank you for sharing that! I’m definitely not familiar with the process to immigrate here legally.
People fear the unknown – this is unkown and out of their control – thus they fear it. I personally believe that everyone has a right to live thier lives in safety and security and if the only way they can do that is to come to another country than who am I to say “Piss off.” Everyone want to feel secure and not live in fear.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. It is the fear of the unknown.
I cannot believe how irrational people in this country become when it comes to Asylum Seekers. My biggest issue is not with the everyday people however but the Federal Govt and Opposition. They have an opportunity to lead this country in the right direction, to show compassion and uphold our UN obligations. They choose to take a different path, listening to a small but very loud and vocal minority. Makes me both angry and sad.
I agree exactly. We could be “moving forward” as Gillard likes to say, but it certainly doesn’t feel like forward thinking is on the agenda.
PS I am loving your book. I’ll probably blog about it in the next few weeks.
I love this post and agree with pretty much everything you said.
As a white Christian (though middle class rather than upper class), it frustrates me that some very vocal “Christians” (read: politicians and power-brokers) are spreading messages of hate and exclusivity rather than the messages of compassion, and giving not only other Christians, but Jesus himself, some pretty bad PR.
And it really only is a very very tiny percentage of people being so vocal, that is sending a bad message.
AMEN! 🙂
I don’t generally agree that it is a white upper-class society that is against boat people. I believe that it is the working-middle class or ‘middle Australia’ that are generally against boat people. To stereotype, these are the people who watch shows like A Current Affair and listen to shock jocks like Alan Jones and John Laws. Such media people and outlets love to play on these people’s fears and magnify their hatred of boat people. Unfortunately, many politicians try to attract such people to vote for them by promising to “stop the boats”. Hopefully, Christians follow Jesus’ example of love and compassion, and not the messages of bigotry and hatred that many in the media and politics promote.
I think from the comments here and some research I’ve done, it’s not contained to any one group of people.
Okay, I will admit that my dealings with “Christians” lately have been of the less than Christian ilk when discussing asylum seekers and that has coloured my perceptions quite a bit.
Obviously this doesn’t represent all people who identify as Christian, or who are upper middle class.
My argument is that it’s people like Abbott and Abetz who are pandering to the white Christian (or Catholic) ideal – not the actual Christians or Catholics themselves.
See above re: Julie’s comment about a small minority being vocal and spreading a message that a lot of people don’t subscribe to.
I’m not really up-to-date on the facts, but isn’t it a big factor that in some countries, there is no legal process available to apply for asylum? Thus the famed ‘queue’ that is being jumped does not exist. You can’t get in the queue if there is no way to legally do so.
I believe that’s the case, yes.
Gotta love the media pandering to and, scaring the bejebus out of, a tiny but oh-so-LOUDLY vocal minority who whinge, bleat and beat their chests in a war-like stance to scare off the nasty-wasty dusky-skinned people who came here by boat/plane/broomstick and who like as not will Take.Over.The.Country!!!!1!!
Just like those nasty-wasty pasty skinned boat people who rocked up in 1788…
They’re obviously a good letter writing minority. What do the pollies think, one letter is worth 100 people’s opinions?
lots of nodding and agreeing here.
it’s not secret racism it’s just racism.
I like to think of us all as one big community that lives on the same planet. The constant bleating I hear about “what about helping aussies first” annoys me too. We are all humans. How about we just help those that need it.
I arrived here by plane and did not need anything. I just moved in. And I was only running away from the high price of cheese in NZ, nothing like the horror these people have seen. I could write a novel about how I feel about this.
I hadn’t heard the “What about helping Aussies” arguement. I’m glad, because it would have made me twitch.
Jayne, you must be channeling the GOFA and his post!
Yes, Veronica, it is a form of racism, but it is not constrained to any one socio-economic group. I hear complaints about refugees and Indigenous in affluent areas of Sydney’s North Shore … even in my workplace … and I read it in the newspapers about people our west. I see it, I hear it, I read live, I live with someone dealing with it daily. And it is built completely on two very simple premises – greed and ignorance, wrapped in a veneer of a stereotype to marginalise the target group. The Australia I see today is not the one I knew as a child and I despair for the insular, parochial attitudes for our leaders.
I hadn’t read his post, I’ll do that shortly.
Greed and ignorance, definitely.
Superb post, Veronica. Ditto to everything you said. That’s yet another reason why I refuse to buy the Mercury. The visa overstayers are never painted in the same light, that’s for sure. J x
Nope, they never are.
Can I divert just a sec to a secondary point??
Not to get into Australian politics (as an American I have enough trouble in my own backyard) but… what were the people living near this old barracks thinking? That it would be turned into Candyland and everyone would get popsicles? That the government would use it to make a botanical garden, tourists would come from all over the world and property values nearby would go way up? I mean… what was going through their heads when they bought property near a barracks to begin with???
I’m not sure? The old barracks is rather small and just houses stuck in the middle of a paddock basically. Who knows what they thought it was going to be turned into?
We have the same reaction going on here in SA with the detention centre being built near Woodside.
How about the other side of the coin? All the NIMBYers, what if it was YOU looking for a safe place to live? Would you want to be treated this way?
They’re all just people looking for a new home.
Exactly!!
I LOVE you. I wrote a post about Australia day. There were no cOmments on my blog but Facebook went OFF and I received ten sorts of hell about it from right wingers and ignorant hateful bogans (“friends” of mine). You go princess. A round of applause from me. Xxxx
I’m really lucky I think, my friends list on FB is mostly very accepting of all opinions – probably because the bogans were warned that I would delete anyone spreading hate and misinformation.
I so agree with you on this awesome post.
The attitude of many towards these people makes me so sad and frustrated.
Me too. I spend a lot of time yelling at the TV.
To all those people who complain about ‘boat people’ or other asylum seekers I have to ask them, if Australia became a place where you were being oppressed, abused or threatened with death because of your religion, political beliefs, sexuality or class status, and your government wouldn’t protect you, and wouldn’t legally let you flee, wouldn’t you do anything you could to escape. Even if that ‘anything’ was giving all your savings to someone you weren’t entirely sure you could trust, packing up only what you carry, cramming yourself onto an overcrowded boat, and heading off on unsafe waters, because out there was a better place where supposedly everyone was given a chance and you had a right to be treated with respect and equality. And when you got there , wouldn’t you want to be welcomed, not shunned.
That is how I explained it to my partner too. If we had to flee for whatever reason, in order to keep our children safe, we would. No questions.
Ah yes, sadly this is not just an issue in Australia. Similar rants appear here in Canada whenever there is an influx of people seeking asylum or just a larger number of immigrants.
It is sad really. Historically, Canada, much like most of the “lucky countries” in the world, was populated by immigrants. Sadly, those immigrants then went about stealing land from those “noble savages” who already lived there. With the exception of the First Nations populations, we are all descendants of immigrants and should be respectful of those who wish to join us in our “lucky countries”.
At least, this is my 2 cents worth . . . although the way the world economy is today, it might not even be worth that!
Jenn
It’s really sad to know that Australia isn’t alone in this kind of thinking.
It’s just shocking that people can be so uncaring. 🙁
I know. And sad too.
Hear hear! Thank you so much for this post! I live in Germany, so I can’t really tell what the exact reasons are for this behaviour over there in your neck of the woods, but regarding the situation of the asylum seekers here in Germany, I´d say that it is mostly ignorance, fear of the unknown, egoism and a good dose of racism at least in some of the cases. I struggle very often with that and still don´t know what could really change the way in which people unfortunately so often think. But it´s comforting to read the thoughts of other people struggling with that, too!
What annoys me a lot is the way the topic is handled in the media. Most of the articles just stoke fears instead of clarifying some of the points a lot of people obviously get wrong… (like: they come here to live on us, the take the jobs from us, they don´t even try to learn our language etc.) Again: I can only speak for the country I´m living in, not saying that it´s the same in Australia.
I just can´t wrap my head around the fact that so many people don´t see asylum seekers as equal human beings with the exact same human rights we have. Hopefully this will change soon…
Fine
I think what you’re seeing in Germany and what we’re seeing here is very similar. While it’s nice to know Australia isn’t alone in this, it’s a bit saddening to think that it’s the opinions from the developed world.
Don’t mistake self-preservation instinct for racism. And don’t underestimate the power of the media to shape people’s attitudes. We don’t see stories on backpackers over-staying their visas, we see instead stories of assylum seekers sewing their mouths shut, burning buildings and rioting. I agree that people are locked up for far too long, but we can’t have an open door policy either. If “stopping the boats” saves lives then it’s a good thing. Behind every boat load of people is a criminal people smuggler. Tasmanians don’t have a lot of experience with other cultures, so that should be taken into account as well. And I don’t believe Australia is a racist country. The news is constantly full of the dreadful things that happen in other countries against those of different races or religion.
Can I ask how “stopping the boats” would save lives?
I was thinking mainly of the boat capsizing at Christmas Island last year which horrified us all.
I actually had a very similar post done up and sitting as a draft as I think it is a religion thing that is scaring people – that and skin colour. Given that we – and I use the term we as meaning white settlers and convicts from Britain, who were my ancestors, invaded a country that was already owned by a race of people and then proceeded to treat them with no respect, not even allowing them to vote until the mid 60’s, and in some cases eradicating them entirely from their land. What right do ‘we’ have to say no to people who have fled from horror regimes and look to us for a safe place to live. Post World War II we opened our doors to many people from Europe and offered them a place to live, but all of them had white skin and few if any were Muslim. Then post Vietnam we let more refugees in – again not Muslim. It has made us as a people, and it has made Australia a wonderful multi-cultural place to live. Open your minds and hearts people, please don’t let us become a culture of bigots.
Sorry V, if I just hijacked your comments section, but I so wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying.
You didn’t hijack the comment section at all 🙂
I think people are angry becaus eof the amount that the government is spending on these people while pensioners and veterans suffer.
Well that’s the general idea going around here. :-/
I’ve heard that too – but that said $15m is small change in the Fed Government standards and it would take an awful lot more than that to fix the pension/veteran issue.
It’s the “But what about ME?” mentality.
Thank you for putting the asylums seekers plight so clearly i shared it on my profile in order to spread the word that its not just me that thinks like this.
Hope you and your family have a happy and safe Easter
Thank you for sharing it.
Thanks for taking the time to post this. I have been thinking a lot about this issue and recently ran a presentation on this in my degree at Uni. I think people are deeply afraid. As they were when the British colonised Australia; afraid that the Chinese would overrun them in the gold rush days.
Our whole society is constructed on avoiding risk; we are almost afraid to walk out of our door lest something bad happens to us. Everything from fearing our kids will fall behind if we don’t educate them early enough, afraid we will not be financially secure, afraid of terrorism, afraid of our health…it is a risk society that governs us all.
I think this particular issue is no different. They (asylum seekers) are an “unknown” and as such we buy into all sorts of myths which are propagated by media and the Government.
It saddens me deeply that we are consumed by fear and harden our hearts to people; yet i see that this is what fear does, it makes someone an enemy in order to convince us we are safe.
It takes guts to not let fear rule and to sit and really look at the issues. Here’s hoping people can just stop and look and critically examine this issue so that we can build a more humanistic planet.
Cheers,
Bel
I’ve been thinking about it too, a lot, especially since the election with all the politicising that was done about the “Boat People” issue.
I agree, I think fear is a big contributing issue to this and hopefully, we can start to combat that.
What I want to know is, instead of spending so much money creating new housing for asylum seekers, which is just awful, why aren’t we spending that money on employing people to process them faster? Surely a few hundred people doing the paperwork would mean fewer people in undeserved detention, and then they can settle in sooner. Start accessing services to overcome the trauma they have suffered and start their new lives. It just makes sense. The problem isn’t that there are too many refugees. The problem is our processing of them (which sounds very impersonal, I know, but you know what I mean, the background checks, health checks etc). The bureaucracy.
I agree with you entirely!
I can only say that here in Germany it is a strategy the government follows: make the situation as uncomfortable as possible for the asylum seekers so that the other possible asylum seekers who are still in their countries of origin think twice (or more) about coming here (it´s actually written down in a law: “Förderung der Rückkehrbereitschaft”, could be roughly translated as “promotion of the readiness of returning”, to their countries of origins, that is). That includes the refugee camps, where the refugees have to live with four or five other asylum seekers in one small room (sometimes all from different countries and cultures), the denying of a working permit, the absence of language courses and even food packages instead of a little amount of money to buy the food they want. Therefore many refugees who have to endure this for a couple of years become depressive, some try to commit suicide etc. And still so many people think that they live on us…
And I totally agree with most of the comments above and your reply, Veronica: it´s nice to know that there are other countries with the same problems and so many people who don´t agree with the politics of their government, and still it is sad that apparently it is the common opinion in the western, so called “developed” countries. (Apparently developed doesn`t mean having high moral standards.) Especially sad since most of the western countries achieved their wealth by exploiting the developing countries…
I’m sorry if I´m talking nineteen to the dozen, it´s just that this topic really aggravates me.
Oh wow, I didn’t know that about Germany, although I wouldn’t be surprised if we found out that Australia has a similar policy. It makes me so angry to think that this is what we’re reducing people to.
The thing is from a security point of view. They destroy thier passports . So we dont know who they are really. Honestly they aint honestly here for the best reasobs. People have a right to be pissed off. They get stuff for free and destroy stuff and tax payers are the ones that pay the bills.
From a security point of view, we could have health and background checks completed in 8 weeks, not the 5-6 years it is taking.
They destroy their passports in fear of being sent back immediately. I would do the same thing in their situation – if I thought another country would provide a safe life for my children, I would take it with both hands.
Honestly, why do people keep shouting about “tax payers” paying the bills, like you’re the one personally responsible for feeding and clothing them. Most tax in this country comes from big business and if Coles or Myer put up their hand to foot the bill, the average Joe wouldn’t bat an eyelid.
As for destroying stuff, things have to be pretty bad in the first place for them to get to that point.
I just went through the rigmorale of commenting on an iPhone because I just turned my computer off and checked twitter before bed and Lisa Lintern had tweeted this post. I just wanted to say, with my arms raised high:
“Hallelujah!” OMG yes to everything you just said!
Oh wow, commenting on an iPhone is a pain in the arse!
I’d like to know more about this issue, and would welcome suggestions on where to get real information, not someone else’s opinion. Congratulating each other on our enlightened generosity while calling the opposers ignorant racists, is not changing anything. It just gets people’s backs up. Where do I get the real facts?
Try here:
http://www.rethinkrefugees.com.au/
Fabulous post!!
I want to rant and rave about this too. I want to shout at the TV. “Where is your compassion?” Regardless of what the adults may or may not have done or not done how can anyone justify locking up children???
I really think it is ignorance and fear mongering that makes the general population react the way they do. The politicians and media feed the public the information and ideas that they want perpetuated and rumours and craziness grow from there.
Exactly! And I’m feeling all ranty and rave-y again this morning, because they are not ILLEGAL.
while yes you’re right there is no “queue to get into australia” there are official channels in which to apply for asylum and yes you’re right they can apply regardless of how they arrive. for every “boat person” [only using the term because it’s how they are referred to in the media] who arrives on our shores, there is an actual already confirmed genuine refugee in say africa waiting for the green light to start a new life here but now they have to wait even longer.
you will find that alot of the problem everyday australians have with “boat people” is that they are fleeing from middle eastern countries for somewhere “safe to live” and yet they pass many safe countries on the way here – if you are a genuine refugee who is fleeing for your life – your only concern should be finding a safe port – there are many between here and the middle east [using the example of refugees coming from the middle east].
and after the recent events at villawood, i can understand the people who are concerned about living so close to a detention centre [a term i personally detest]. while yes we do not house asylum seekers in fabulous conditions, they are safe from persecution, they have a roof over their heads and have food, water and entertainment – showing no respect for their accommodation and causing criminal damage [which is what they did – they destroyed buildings and hurled tiles at guards] to it will do them no favours not only in the eyes of the people who will be “processing” them but also in the eyes of the everyday australian. a talkback caller to a local radio show last week said “if that’s how they act in detention how will they act out of it?” and a follow up caller responded by saying “yes but they are acting like that because they are stressed” and the host said “yes that is true but it is still them showing a side to their character that exists – we can’t deny that or pretend that side of them doesn’t exist because they have shown it does”. this is how everyday australian’s see them and their actions.
i have no problem detaining asylum seekers regardless of how they arrived as health and background checks do need to be done but i think we need to look in how we do it. put simply the process just takes too long. their should be processing centres that are staffed and operating 24hrs – the only reason why these asylum seekers are being housed is so that we can clarify and prove their refugee status – this can be done quickly, other countries do this [one in europe who does it very successfully]. they would only need to be “detained” for a short period of time – if their refugee status is deemed genuine then they get released into the community to start their new life, if not they are sent back to their country of origin.
i also have no problem with genuine refugees being given a new start here.
Isn’t it true however, that a lot of people fleeing their country, can’t apply for asylum officially, because of persecution, or because the system truly doesn’t exist in their own country?
Perhaps BUT it does exist in plenty of countries closer to them than Australia…
I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you’re getting at. You would prefer that they flee to another country? Or that they should go to a closer country to apply the ‘right’ way to come here?
Saying they should have the right to flee, just not to this country is exactly what Veronica is talking about – NIMBYism!
No it’s not.
My point is a GENUINE refugee, one who is in fear of their life, isn’t concerned about reaching a WEALTHY country, all they care about is their life and that it isn’t ended. There are MANY countries between the middle east and here where they would find asylum and yet they decide to continue to RISK their lives to come here. It makes no sense. It’s a calculated move and not one of a refugee who just wants to be safe.
And I’d LOVE for you to stop putting words in my mouth – I said that they do have the RIGHT to apply for asylum regardless of how they arrive but the fact is that yes there are people out there who have applied via UN camps who will now have to wait longer because they didn’t have the thousands to pay to people smugglers and board a boat to get here.
And I have to agree with Mac below – I hate how if you don’t particularly either agree with illegal immigration on the whole or on certain levels you’re immediately called a racist – having a different opinion doesn’t mean you’re a racist.
Because oh god, we wouldn’t want to be called RACISTS now, would we? Just for disagreeing that they shouldn’t come to Australia, they should go somewhere else?
My point is, if Australia was invaded and we needed to leave, I would pick New Zealand over Indonesia, even if Indonesia was closer, because I think that NZ would offer a better life for my family. Are we seriously arguing that they aren’t genuine because they chose to come to Oz, rather than stay in Indonesia or Timor and live in poverty, with likely no chance at a job, or home, or decent life?
Again, no I’m not saying that they aren’t genuine but it would and does make alot of Australians call it into question.
As for the racist term, it just gets bandied about too easily.
Which I personally think is media propoganda, because you have to look at which countries are signed on to the UN Asylum Seeker Treaty and the ease of getting to that country. It really does seem that Australia offers the best chances.
Um, if you read my comment again you’ll see that I was asking for clarification, not ‘putting words in your mouth’ or calling you a racist. Thanks for the overreaction though, and hopefully Sara’s comment below has eased some of your concerns 🙂
Love this post.
I watched this doco the other night http://www.abc.net.au/aplacetothink/html/admission.htm
It’s 20 years old but it shows that Australia, historically, really hasn’t had a compassionate state of mind when it comes to refugees.
Love & stuff
Mrs M
Thanks for that link, hopefully I’ll get some time to watch this afternoon.
Your views are well intentioned and altruistic, but where would it end if Australia just ‘welcomed’ all illegal immigrants ( and entering a country with the intention to stay, without permission is ILLEGAL), just gave them a ‘health check and security check’ and then let them settle in? Security checks are impossible without at least a passport. I’m really surprised that you’ve had so few people disagreeing with you. The Villawood disgrace certainly does the ‘boat people’ no favours, and why do you get labelled ‘racist’ just because you disagree with illegal immigration?
I disagree with illegal immigration, but the asylum seekers are NOT HERE ILLEGALLY. It is NOT ILLEGAL to seek asylum.
If we want to talk illegals, let’s talk about backpackers overstaying their visa. Oh WAIT, they speak the language and they work and they’re generally fair skinned, so it’s not a problem, right?
I have been reading a lot on this issue lately, and I’ve decided that the main reason people object to asylum seekers settling here, is their shockingly bad behaviour these days. The Vietnamese in the 70’s and the Kosovars more recently were well received because of their good behaviour and they deserved our help. And people are scared of immigrants bringing their volotile cultures and problems to Australia, and you can’t blame them. I’m not an ignorant racist. I just want to understand.
see what I mean? Yes, backpackers overstaying their visa’s is illegal, and when caught, need to be dealt with. No argument from me there. But getting in a boat, and sailing to Australia with the intention of living here without authority is ILLEGAL!!! That’s not ‘seeking asylum’. That’s trying to take advantage. If Australia becomes known as an ‘easy target’ then the boats are just going to get bigger….. and as a tax payer, I do object to MY taxes being used to pay for the damage caused by these ILLEGAL ‘immigrants’. would I be wrong in thinking that you have not been a tax payer for very long, if at all? maybe when you’ve been in the work force for 30 or 40 years, and have worked for everything you have,and paid an enormous amount of money to the government, you may be less inclined to let people take advantage of us. No one wants to see people suffering, but there are processes that need to be in place and adhered to, to ensure a fair and sensible approach for genuine people seeking asylum. People always throw in the ‘racist’ card, when they run out of arguments, skin colour or religion has nothing to do with it.
I’m sorry, you’re arguing semantics. If they request asylum, they’re asylum seekers.
Also, please see my above comment regarding the tax payer argument. Once it’s tax, it’s not your money anymore either and you’ve got no say over it.
How can you tell if they intend to live here without authority? It’s well publicised that Australia’s borders are patrolled, how exactly would they get through safely without being detected? Destroying identifying information doesn’t necessarily happen because they want to escape detection, it could also be that they’re absolutely terrified of being put on the very next plane back to their country.
And your comment about the ‘racism card’ – it seems to me that whenever people run out of arguments, they also use the ‘age card’ 😉
An asylum seeker is a person who has fled their own country and applies to the government of another country for protection as a refugee. A refugee is a person who is outside their own country and is unable (or unwilling) to return due to a well-founded fear of being persecuted because of their: race; religion; nationality; political opinion; member of a particular social group. Australia has obligations to protect the human rights of all asylum seekers and refugees who arrive in Australia, regardless of how or where they arrive and whether they arrive with or without a visa. (Further information can be found on the Australian Human Rights Commission website).
Illegally entering the country via a boat… these are not always asylum seekers, they only become that once they are caught, and no doubt have been told to say that. Some unscrupulous people will offer a better life to those who have very little and want the best for their family (nothing wrong with that), but they will pay these captains of boats all the money they have for a passage to Australia and if successful, will mingle with Australians, claim benefits, get jobs, etc. All sounds good really, but these people are here illegally!
Taxes… hmm, maybe that needs to be another thread. The tax we pay whether it be me, you or big business, is the Australian publics money, I’m an Australian, as no doubt you are. We have elected a government to manage these public funds to provide a better way of life for the Australian public. Yes, this includes the baby bonus, Centrelink payments, PBS scheme, education, infrastructure, politicians wages, the list goes on, but at the end of the day it is the taxpayer’s contribution – doesn’t matter how big or small it is – so yes, WE are paying the bills.
Detention centres have been provided for asylum seekers/refugees and is maintained by the Australian government using public funds. Granted, these centres are not grand or contain the latest and greatest gadgets and luxuries, but they are designed to serve a purpose – to humanely house asylum seekers, provide counselling for torture and trauma, access to family tracing services, interpreting and translation, medical care, education and recreational activities, all using public money. Although the immigration process is slow, there is no reason to damage their temporary home.
Damages… Yes, things would have to have been pretty bad for them to leave and seek asylum in Australia, but intimidation and violence is not the Australian way, I’m pissed off that these possible future citizens may be considered for a visa because someone wants to be the squeaky wheel. These few asylum seekers that do cause trouble should be weeded out and sent back or shipped off to another port, we don’t want them (don’t care what nationality or creed they are).
Frustrated… Yes, I can imagine that they would be frustrated, especially after being detained for a long period, but at least they are not living in fear or torture, being raped or killed. At least they are being educated, fed, and housed, surly it has to be better than what they left?
A good debate is always welcome, there should always be enough respect to listen to other peoples opinions and voice yours, no need to start tearing down bridges just because you might not agree with what somebody says.
My two cents worth, with information from http://www.hreoc.gov.au/human_rights
Thank you for a well reasoned comment, even if I don’t agree with everything you’ve said.
Also, just quickly regarding benefits, I am sure I read somewhere that asylum seekers are not entitled to any Centrelink benefits? I’m not quite sure about that though…
I must admit, I’m not entirely up to date on the Villawood situation, I’ve been focused on what is happening close to home with the protests about the Pontville detention centre being built.
I’ve said this before, in this post Christmas Island: the greatest gift they’ll get this year is life; there are so many reasons I can think of why people would chose to take their family so far away from their country of origin, but perhaps one reason people discount is the desire to leave bad memories behind, as far behind as possible. Simplistic? Not to my childhood neighbours.
Entering a country without a visa or staying beyond it’s expiry is illegal, but seeking asylum is not. Seeing the dramas at Villawood and Christmas Island, where property is deliberately damaged is disturbing and does not assist the case for the refugees. It annoys me, but at the same time, I realise that many of those refugees probably had little idea that the processes they would have to go through would drag on for so long, in some cases for years. There is nothing more demoralising than being deprived of your liberty, something that detainees were trying to escape and only find in their Utopia.
In some cases, where refugees are released into the community and become contributors to our society, they are still not certain of being allowed to stay. Take a family I know of who were to be sent back to their own country after 7 years here, because their country of origin was no longer considered to be unsafe. They had left after all their men had been murdered, their sister beaten literally senseless (she has the mental capacity of young child) and made her pregnant. The child whilst born outside Australia, came here as an infant and knows no other home. The family have made efforts to get an education and work, even the brain damaged woman. Some compassion to send these people home. These are the sort of people we need here.
Separating the refugees/asylum seekers from the illegal immigrants must be no easy task, but then, leaving your home, your culture and family must also be no easy choice. I can imagine no greater heartache than to cross the “front lines” of a conflict, be separated from my family and know that I will possibly never see them again.
Thank you for this comment. x
Hi Veronica et al. I just came across this post and thought I might add in my two bob worth and give the perspective from a former asylum seeker/refugee/”boat person”. (And to date I certainly haven’t eaten anyone’s face, apart from my nine-month old son’s but he’s so cute and chubby that I can’t help but eat him all over. But I digress. : )
When you are running for your lives, the last things you are thinking of are the “papers” and “processes” and which country to “take advantage of” (“MAC”, take note). As was the case with my father who, 30 years ago, had to make the decision to either stay in the country that he once dearly loved but no longer recognised and live in fear of being killed and leaving behind a wife and 3 small children who would be persecuted for the rest of their lives simply because they were “unfortunate” to have a husband and father who fought against their regime, or, take his chances with the open sea on a rickety shrimping boat (definitely not a P&O cruise), dodging unknown dangerous waters, pirates (no, not the Captain Sparrow kind) and other dangers. I was the eldest at 5 & my youngest brother was only 4 months old so you can imagine the terror we were experiencing. I especially don’t know how my mum got through it with all the worry and enormous stress she must have been under. Although years later she did have a nervous breakdown.
Anyway, about some people’s argument that if they are “genuine” refugees, they would have id and other papers or not destroyed them. I can’t speak for all asylum seekers but I know that if we had been caught by the victors (and they were scoping out all the possible escape routes for escapees), and our identification was established, I would NOT be here typing this. At any rate, we went in so much of a hurry and amidst such secrecy that we only managed to leave with mainly what we were wearing. My mum didn’t even get to say good-bye to my nanna, who was only one of 3 people who knew what we were up to, and for 6 weeks she didn’t even know if we were alive or dead. I’ve been told that she didn’t stop crying for weeks after she found out that we had actually gone.
Another point I want to argue. That genuine refugees wouldn’t be able to pay 10’s of thousands of dollars to people smugglers. Again, I’m going to use my own experiences. We were quite wealthy before the war and before the conquering victors literally stole everything from us. We had land, property & lots of posessions. My mum even had servants to help her. When my dad was told that the only way onto this boat was to pay a large sum of money he despaired until my nanna told him that she had managed to hide some expensive jewellery and that if she sold it, it would be enough. Anyway it ended up that my nanna didn’t have to sell the jewellery because at the last minute, the captain of the ship, who wasn’t a smuggler by the way, relented when he found out my dad had been a high ranking navy official during the war and he could help to navigate the ship.
My point is, if you had the resources, wouldn’t you use that to help your family escape a certain life of persecution and other unknown horrors? Or are the poor more deserving of seeking asylum than the relatively well off?
Lastly, I want to point out what really pisses me off most about what I’ve been hearing and reading in the last few days in light of the riots at Villawood. There ARE people out there who are xenophobic and – I have to use this word cos I can’t think of another more appropriate- racist enough to use what’s been happening as way to justify their own uninformed, ignorant views and Aryan utopian ideals. As if to say ” I told you so”. Instead of doing some friggin research like most of us here are doing and having informed debates. Let’s move out of the mythical realm of the boogeymen, unicorns and fairies shall we? This is where words and phrases like “queue jumper”, “illegal immigrants”, and “all refugees are terrorists and dole bludgers who come to take our jobs ” belong. (How can they be both dole bludgers AND take all the jobs? duh!). Like I said to my hubby. Myths are for children and fools.
THANK YOU for your comment and for sharing what your family went through.
(I have a tendency to nibble on my son as well – it must be a mother thing.)
Hi Sara,
I really appreciate you telling the situation from your own experience. We don’t get to hear enough of that and I am grateful to hear it first hand. Thank you and I am glad you and your family are safe now.
Bel from Tasmania x
Thank you so much for sharing your story and trying to add some informed perpective to a debate so filled with ignorance.
Just because people don’t agree with illegal immigration doesn’t make them ignorant, it just means they have a different opinion to yours.
People are allowed to have different INFORMED opinions different to the majority you know.
To assume that ALL “boat people” are “Illegal” IS being ignorant and uninformed.
I have been interested in reading all the different sides of this topic, especially the first hand account, it has been fantastic. Can I just add some views garnered for years on the administration side of “illegal” immigration? Firstly, I think you would be all amazed by the amount of people involved in processing, for example, a boat on arrival. These people are professional and efficient, but I have seen them in tears on their return from the heartbreak and stress involved, and I have seen them caught up in riots and violence in detention centres. They are every day public servants, wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, daughters, sons. They are caring human beings who really do have the refugees’ interest at heart. The horrific stories they hear from those arriving are heartrending.
In the long run, it is easier for everyone involved if they can get them processed and out of detention as soon as possible. The processing is long and involved, mostly due to the need for interpreters and the unwillingness to provide information by exhausted, fearful and uninformed refugees. This is because the information they are provided by the people smugglers (who are the real ones we should be persecuting!) is inaccurate and they are in most cases not aware they will be detained on arrival. They have come from countries where authorities are to be feared, and I mean they fear for their lives! Other complications arise in some cases where Muslims are involved as the men often will not permit their wives and families to speak to the investigators. And as previously stated above, they do not hold identification documentation. It takes some time to earn their trust and obtain the necessary information, and then to find them appropriate housing, in the area they wish to live in. In the meantime they do all possible to make them comfortable. The detention centres are well-equipped, they have cooks trained in the cuisine of the detainee’s countries of origin, they have educational facilities and computers, for example. No, they are not five star resorts, they are detention centres, I’m sure there would be quite the uproar if it were any different, but they are certainly better than “rickety boats” and often much better than the conditions they have escaped from.
Despite all these delays, an enormous number of refugees are processed and resettled very soon after arrival. With some it does take a bit longer. One of the problems with Afghani refugees for example is that in appearance they can be very similar to Pakistanis, who are not eligible for refugee status. Not many “illegal” refugees arrive by other means because, for example, airlines are fined for bringing passengers without proper documentation, and are usually responsible for the cost of putting them back on a plane to go home.
In the end, it is not to the Government’s advantage to keep detainees locked up indefinitely, politically at least, and financially too. I know there are many out there who are scared of the refugees, afraid of having a detention centre located near them, even afraid of having refugees living near them, but I don’t think most people are ‘racist’ just uniformed and manipulated by the media and political groups. I quite understand, too, the resentment of Australian citizens who are struggling to keep a roof over their head and food on the table when they look at the detainees setting fire to and destroying their facilities. And the resentment of those who have spent time in dreadful conditions in detention camps throughout the world waiting in line to go through official channels to be declared a refugee and immigrate to Australia. Everyone sees this situation through their own eyes, and we should give these people the same compassionate consideration we are asking everyone to extend to the refugees.
It would be a wonderful world if people didn’t have to escape their homes to escape persecution, to travel halfway across the world at the risk of their own lives and those of their families, to line the pockets of people smugglers who don’t give a shit for these people (in most cases), if we could just say “Hello, welcome!” and let everyone in, to all live together happily without fear or discrimination. But people are people. That’s not how the world works, unfortunately. You would all look at refugee immigrants a little differently in the street if you thought they had not gone through ANY processing! So be careful when you hate on those that speak out against the refugees, calling them racists, ignorant and idiots. Calling it NIMBYism. Because really, you are being just as bad as they are. Do you know, if they were going to build a detention centre / prison / nuclear power station / mental hospital / church / mosque / brothel / army barracks / wind farm / rehabilitation centre etc. etc. etc. (although I have no objection to any of those things) right outside my house, I’d be saying NIMBY too. Can you HONESTLY say you wouldn’t say that too? HONESTLY?
Good on you for caring about the refugees. If only that was all it took.
Thank you for your comment and the information you shared, I do appreciate it.
I wouldn’t be saying NIMBY, but that is my personal opinion. My post was in response not to the reasoned comments that came out about the Pontville detention centre, but to the hate that people were spewing the ‘they’re going to kill us in our sleep and rape our children’ comments, that I was shocked by. So my perspective on the issue of Pontville is skewed probably, by knowing the people and the hate first hand.
Certainly there are some elements out there that will hate on anything and anyone. You will never make them happy. It is a depressing reminder of how rancid people can be. It wouldn’t matter with these folk how much information we gave them on what it’s like for refugees or for that matter the difficulty for the Government in processing and handling the problem, they would not be mollified, they would distrust and hate just as much. I often feel these people are never really ‘happy’ (can you call it that?) unless they are out there spouting this vitriolic rubbish. They are the ones that tell you your kids are monsters because they are crying at the supermarkets, that take the time to set up hate walls on Facebook and scream obscenities at you from car windows because you put your indicator on a little late. All we can do is keep open minds and be compassionate and hopefully if there are enough of us out there with level heads, not going off one way or the other too crazily, then common sense will prevail. I think, in the end, the ‘haters’ of this world are vastly outnumbered. Their voices are just louder and more annoying.
I think you are exactly right, there are just some people like that.
I’m not offended by people who have sought out information about the asylum seeker situation and still disagree with whatever they want to disagree with. Informed debate doesn’t offend me nearly as much as vitriolic rubbish, or misquoted media propaganda, spouted in ever louder voices.
Sara, I’ve heard this before. An elderly man I and my family knew well, who was the mayor of his town when the Red Army invaded, burned the town’s papers as they marched in, before fleeing with his wife and children. I gather he would have been of much interest to the Russians had he been captured. Under cover of darkness, they and others were spirited out in groups by the resistance. Everyone drew lots so that no-one was favoured in their escape attempt. This family was separated as result. It seems when the time to leave comes, there is little chance to take anything other what is to hand and you go wherever, however you must, without thought of long term consequences. Such is the nature of fleeing from your life, it seems, whether it be in WWII or modern day Afghanistan.
Great report and I agree, agree!!
Trying not to repeat what has already been covered, here’s my additional comments.
The media adds fuel to the fire that is the anti-asylum seeker sentiment by producing sensationalistic and on more than a few occasions reports that are filled full of blatant inaccuracies. What still stands quite fresh in my mind was the “children overboard” scandal from 2001. To refresh people’s minds this was where a group of asylum seekers were reported by the Howard govt (at the time) and the media of throwing their children overboard into the middle of the ocean so as to to get picked up and hopefully get to Australia. It occurred shortly before a Federal election and was subsequently post election proved to be completely untrue. Australian people at the time bought this story and were completely outraged (who wouldn’t be?) at the thought of parents chucking their own young children into the ocean. I watched a great report at one point (I think maybe 4 coreners) that analysed the whole incident piece by piece and how it came about that those events were incorrectly reported. Despite all this I bet most people today still think it happened. I have also seen some instances where sensationalistic reports have been produced and shown at prime time TV i.e. A Current Affair, Today Tonight and have included factually incorrect information, proven subsequent to the report in question. Things like the amount of money that refugees use on welfare benefits have been grossly inflated to make the story look eye-catching. It’s a shame that the majority of media reports in this fashion as it does drive the negative sentiment that we see in this country.
John Hewson (ex Liberal opposition leader) wrote a piece in Fridays’s Financial Review which had some interesting points to consider about this issue. One of his key points is that we should take on a more positive approach to asylum seekers, we can do this by educating the broader community about the orders of magnitude involved and the benefits these people will bring to our skills deficient society. He also talks about how our historical experience tells us that refugees make excellent citizens. It’s true, why don’t we hear positive stories in the media. Unfortunately it is all very negative and difficult stuff to read. I’m sure if the govt and media adopted a fairer approach to reporting people in the wider community might be surprised at some of the positive stuff. As it is people just bring up the same old things which have been re-hashed by the media over and over again i.e. queue jumpers, waste of tax-payers $$ etc etc.
I have just heard today that the most senior United Nations rep for Human Rights is coming to Australia on 20 May to look at Humanitarian issues within Australia and paying particular attention to racism. Outcomes will be very interesting!!
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